Brakes in the back keep you stable. Here is an example of landing gear place on a complex geometric surface: Unstable plane Rear landing gears only seems to work on cylindrical fuselage, if you place them on a fuselage intake or anything other than a cylinder, the wheels can behave strangely. the I place on the wing and attach landing gear on those, it sometimes takes a few tries to find the right spot but well worth it. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. You've just unlocked "Aviation" tech, you have a bunch of contracts that require you to stay at low altitude, and you want to build your first plane? All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! If you're planning on landing on a somewhat uneven surface, like an open grassland somewhere on Kerbin or an island on Laythe, consider packing some parachutes for deceleration. Thermal turbulence, caused by convection, happens below clouds and typically only impacts planes during takeoff and landing. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Here is the best aircraft I have created to date: Jet Aircraft. - Make sure you have enough control authority to lift the nose up. Note: The large delta wing will ensure you won't backflip. and our The SSTO I took to Laythe recently has only one minor flaw using this design, I have to raise the landing gear and pull back slightly to take off. Although I usually only need 50 m/s for most planes to wobble out of control. I believe the issue is there is not enough control surfaces to offset this issue, but it comes up very easy so it is not a very big deal. But also check to make sure that your wheels are placed symmetrically and your engines are aligned properly. Canards and horizontal tail fins should be placed as far towards the front and back of your aircraft as possible, respectively. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design. A relatively low-drag alternative is to use an inverted cargo bay and some hydraulic cylinders with structural panels as a cargo elevator. One idea I haven't noticed here yet: "wire up" the landing gear, with strut connectors. This makes design easier, eliminating all concern for balancing jet fuel against rocket fuel. Some testing is usually required with new designs to determine the best ascent profile. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Geometric shape of the body you attach the landing gear to. 67K subscribers in the KerbalAcademy community. Why is it doing this? Valve Corporation. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. As such, you may want to line all forward Mk1 radial nodes on your aircraft with shock cones, if possible. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. I made this aircraft based on real life commercial jet design. Install S5 moon rocket By lightbreaker_64. Re-entry heating can destroy parts of your spaceplane, or destroy it entirely. Then at the top, we'll put one tail fin, centred on the end of the fuselage. I took off and at 60 m/s I was in the air! That way you can use aerodynamics to lower the tail, rather than trying to raise the nose. This is starting to get really frustrating. Such as not producing lift, which is not what you want with a plane. You want an elevon on each set of wings. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Do you have a screenshot of the craft? 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. Secondly, it would suggest that your spaceplane's center of lift is too far forward compared to its center of gravity (causing the uncontrollable spin). If you need to carry more fuel, consider using the Big-S Delta Wing as it provides the same lift-to-drag and lift-to-weight ratio as any other wing of the same mass, yet has the ability to carry fuel as well. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. If you have seen the examples above, I have planes that have angled landing gear and they work perfectly, yet some planes with straight landing gears don't. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. One FL-T100 tank can't power any rocket into space, yet a Shock Cone Intake, a Mk1 Inline Cockpit, a half-filled FL-T100 and a J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine aimed in the general direction of "up" will let you laugh your way past the 70km mark at nearly 1200m/s. Drive gently off the runway and use the huge grassy field to take off, without care in the world about the plane veering to a side. This thread is archived . These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. You may also want to deploy your landing gears to increase your drag, as well as airbrakes if you have them. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. It Flips Up And Towards The Opposite Direction. Be warned that if you do not provide sufficient air intakes for the engines you've placed, you may find that some of your engines shut down before others. I have done everything imaginable to try to remedy this problem. Besides the good advice others have given, I would also be very careful with that little tailwheel. Thanks for all the help. everytime i make a powered plane, it always flips over and points backwards after i take off. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! When your jet engines stop working, it is time to ignite the old, reliable liquid fuel engine. Here's a quick installment in to the. - Make sure the landing gear is as close to the center of gravity as possible, just slightly behind it (for nosewheel aircraft). Congratulations! If your Mk3 design jam-packed full of heavy gear can't seem to survive reentry, one option might be to reduce the payload a bit. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. For an example, see the A-10 Warthog's landing gears: link. Obviously jet engines are air-breathing, so you need to include air intakes in your spaceplane. See the tutorial below. 200 m/s runway stability just doesn't seem to have a worthwhile purpose to me, and is inducing counter productive engineering challenges. I shouldn't have placed landing gears on the fuselage, I found that placing landing gears on flat surfaces like wings make landing gears a lot more stable. A Ravenspear Mk3 taking off from the Runway in version 1.0.5. Also note that for maximum efficiency, you should make sure that your horizontal control surfaces are rotated to exactly the same pitch that you've rotated your wings. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Does anybidy have any tips on how to build spaceplanes? Heavy Cargo Space Plane SSTO Download. As you approach 35-50 km, your aircraft will most likely level itself out, at which point you can try aiming about five degrees above the horizon line. This allows you to takeoff at lower speeds and on shorter runways, and likewise for landing. I am definitely aware that there are multiple reasons as to why the plane flips. Another trick is to move the rear landing gear forward, closer to the center of gravity. Clear editor. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. T-1 "Dart" engines are unique amongst conventionally-fuelled rocket engines: They have close to the highest efficiency in both vacuum and low atmosphere. Note: This tutorial was last updated for version 1.7.2. Ailerons to roll your aircraft should be placed as far off to the edges of your wings as possible. Landing can be trickier for spaceplanes since they are designed for higher speeds than other aircraft and may not be able to fly level at speeds low enough for an easy landing (<50 m/s). 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. i have no idea why this happens please help. LV-N exceeds 75% of its full power at just 7700m altitude on Kerbin. 1. They all had landing gear placed at the front and at the back. as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. Keep in mind that as your altitude increases, your control surfaces and winglets will become increasingly ineffective and will no longer work at all once you leave the atmosphere, so you may need to add alternative control systems like reaction wheels or RCS thrusters. Also, try this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14 (still works in 0.90 if you get updated firespitter.dll). If you can't slow down in time, you can simply flick your engines back on to take off and turn around for another try as you pass over the coast. In an aircraft with two or more engines, this can potentially cause you to enter a flat spin which can be unrecoverable if your center of mass is behind your center of lift. When your nose is stable at about 10 degrees above the horizon, pull up hard and keep it pulled. Ideally, the wings should be tilted upward at an angle about 3-5 from the fuselage for optimal lift-to-drag ratio.[1]. They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. Lift maxes out at 30 and declines beyond that point, so avoid excessive fuselage tilt.[1]. 3. angle of the wheels. Conversely, if you keep all of the fuel in the back, you may find that your center of mass gradually drifts so far in front of your center of lift that you can't keep your nose up anymore, also potentially resulting in a fatal scenario. Heavy transport seaplane inspired to the Soviet Beriev A-40 Albatros which also appears in Evangelion 2.0! Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. If the problem has to do with lift then travelling very slowly, possibly even slower than that, should counteract the effects of lift and you won't drift nearly as much. However, don't bother going overboard with intakes because your engines will still shut off at high altitudes due to the low air pressure regardless of how many intakes you have. Alternatively, you can try landing at higher speeds with your nose pointed further down, but this increases challenges with stability and deceleration while on the runway. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. This can turn into a fatal scenario if the center of mass gets behind the center of lift and you enter a flat spin. Having landing gears near the front and back of your aircraft can also help to ensure that you won't break your engines or smash your cockpit into the runway. Your aircraft might just be too heavy - there might not be enough wing lift for it to take off the ground. Your wheels should now have 0 degree angle between them, meaning they are both. Mk2 aircraft may be able to get away with it, but even then it's often best to space them further out. More mass will mean it takes more drag to slow down on reentry, which will mean you go faster at lower altitudes and experience more reentry heating. Place your rear wheels/gear in front of the flaps on your wings. An active front brake can cause your aircraft to rapidly and uncontrollably pivot left or right during landing, and high friction from the front wheel can potentially cause your plane to swerve violently both in landing and takeoff. Necessary for heavy/long spaceplane. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. Nothing bad will happen. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. It provides a wider, more stable wheel base while keeping the wheels straight up and down (no camber). Just like with rockets, get some courageous Kerbal in the cockpit and let's get started! This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. It's a prolem enough I have sever differen gear subassemblies that are stable (un wobbly) I can then position depending on COM. KSP v.22 Takeoff Troubleshooting Guide/Tutorial Lots of info to help get your plane off the runway! This is just a general briefing section with lots of "to do" or "not to do" things: when you think you've got it, check the Aeris 4A tutorial mission to learn how to get into space easily. Doesnt make sense so just do this: Nope that didn't solve anything, even when the plane is past the runway and gliding on the little bit of space before the ocean it will slowly lower to the ocean, what am I doing wrong? my center of lift is always slightly infront of my mass. You need to make sure that the Orange axis on the rotate sphere is parallel to your, nose-tail axis. That, combined with a Unity joint bug, makes your plane bounce. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), which hinders the plane taking off. However, make sure to use struts when placing landing gears on the far edges of a multi-part wing because they may sag enough to cause a fuselage collision with the runway during landing. However, it's not a matter of "atmosphere or not", just a matter of air pressure which decreases rapidly with altitude. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. Note that dropping off cargo from the back with a Mk3 Cargo Ramp is bad for more than one reason. Note that no wings will tolerate more than 2400K, so the difference in temperature tolerance between Mk2 and Mk3 fuselages isn't terribly significant. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. In contrast, if you attempt a landing at the KSC runway on a 270 degree bearing, you run the risk of colliding with the upward slope shortly beyond the runway if you can't slow down initially and then can't speed up fast enough. I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. If there is, I would have found it long ago. Note that when your jet engines shut down simultaneously while climbing in otherwise normal flight, it is generally due to a lack of pressure from the altitude you're flying at. Landing also often requires rapid deceleration to avoid running off the end of the runway or crashing into a slope when landing on open terrain. You want to start by attaching a Mk 0 Liquid Fuel Tank under the wings, making sure you're mirrored so it goes under both wings. The tutorial below explains everything very well. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. Now imagine what happens like that. You can post now and register later. My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. Consider placing your rear landing gears close to the spaceplane's center of mass, but be careful to avoid an engine collision with the runway. Basic structure Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. (For test purposes, all aircraft are not pitched up and SAS is turned off. For more information, please see our Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. As the title says, my plane dips and turns to the side, clips its wing on the runway and loses it, does the same on the other side, then crashes and explodes, without even getting airborne. - SF. You want to get up to get the gear tucked away and reduce drag. You could do it the kerbal way by attaching two SRBs to the nose of the plane pointing upwards. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? Maybe ;making the tailwheel less stiff would help, too. Symmetry placement should give you perfect symmetry, as far as the game is concerned. Display as a link instead, It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! Plane spins/lurches to the side during takeoff? Upload or insert images from URL. If your aircraft is burning up during this stage, you may need larger wings to slow you down faster, radiator panels to carry away the heat more effectively, parts with a higher temperature tolerance (like the Mk2 liquid fuel fuselage instead of the Mk1 liquid fuel fuselage), or parts to increase your maneuverability, like RCS thrusters, reaction wheels, or canards and elevons. Be aware that while this angle will provide the lowest possible landing speed for your spaceplane, it will create problems if your center of gravity is too far ahead of your rear landing gears (causing a high-speed nose collision on touchdown) or if your rear landing gears are too far ahead of your engines, causing them to strike the runway first. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. The only drawback to the reduced friction is reduced steering control, so this setting may need to be adjusted when taxiing to/from a runway, but should otherwise be kept minimal for takeoff and landing. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Landing is hard. KSC's runway is slightly north of Kerbin's equator and perfectly flat. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). Paste as plain text instead, Your very own tutorial.). How do I fix this? [KSP 2] I'm trying really hard to make a Mun capable ship but this rocket . I have created planes that have landing gears place right under the wing tips but they still won't work. I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. First of all, since the launch happens horizontally, you will have to include landing gears, and you will most likely want to include jet engines for the first stage for excellent fuel and cost efficiency. I can not get any aircraft-style spaceplane take off from the runway, they will stay on until the end, where the engines crash into the ground and explode. Either put more engines or reduce the amount of rocket fuel. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107795, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107807, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107735, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107761, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484119427, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484137556, http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/443953434412162923/42B3BB54A6A524CCC2E5C102AD88C8E521790F55/. LV-N has less than 25% of its full power at Kerbin sea level. My Space Plane Keeps Flipping Backwards On The Runway. S5 moon rocket by lightbreaker_64. Even with a stable landing, you may find that you don't have enough room on your desired landing area to come to a stop before you reach the end. Thanks for everyone trying to help! To takeoff and land at low speed, it's helpful to rotate the wings so the leading edge is slightly above the trailing edge. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. Then this tutorial is for you. Note that as you fly higher the air intakes will become less effective and you may come to a point when the engines will shut down due to the lack of air. An alternative is making sure you have complete control of the craft. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Paste as plain text instead, If you keep all of the fuel in the front, you may find that your center of mass drifts backwards as your fuel drains. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. It is due to the spinning up of the engines. This aircraft can takeoff at just above 50 m/s and can glide for a few minutes without engine. Need to move them up. DO NOT ANGLE THEM! Whether you're storing your fuel in fuselage sections, wing sections, or attached inside of cargo bays, it's generally a good idea to keep equal amounts of fuel at equal distances from your center of mass. LV-N engines also have the advantage of using the same liquid for propellant that jet engines use for fuel. At that point, the plane could potentially start spinning around as a result of losing the benefit of the gimbal control of the engine. Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. The same principle applies here. As you reach 100m/s, hold S to pull the stick back, and you should be in the air! Just after having taken off, the plane will immediately start rolling to the right, and completely uncontrollably. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This tutorial was created primarily based on a Reddit post by the incredibly helpful u/AnArgonianSpellsword. I found biggest cause of this as well as not being able to possibly correct is having sas on during takeoff, make sure that is off during take off and should find problem is less likely to occur, but I too struggle to make working space planes even when center of lift, mass, thrust are all as needed. If your spaceplane is difficult to land when full of fuel but easy to land when empty, then it may be helpful to burn off or transfer out most of the excess fuel before landing to make the aircraft lighter. However, they are extremely heavy for their power, weighing as much as a conventional rocket nearly 11 times more powerful. It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. Plane wobble during takeoff - KSP1 Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Is there a way to place landing gear so that i can guarantee my plane can remain stable on the runway even at high speed in excess of 200m/s? The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/65638-Basic-Airplane-Space-Plane-Aero-Tutorial. * Gear not mounted to parts that will flex (e.g. Your wings provide the lift, and they cant provide lift if your wheels are too far back because then your base is to stable and the craft wont pivot upwards. First, I'm sure this is WAY overengineered, but I haven't gotten to the point of caring about that yet. At around . Alternatively, if you're returning from a high orbit or from an interplanetary trip, you can try repeated shallow passes through the atmosphere. Set up for a long glide path, and watch rate of climb indicator at top of screen, aim for -5 m/s. Any ideas? Your link has been automatically embedded. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. Safety note: Disable the brakes on the front landing gear. Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. To recover the most value from your spaceplane, you should try to land on the runway at the Space Center (this tutorial, although it has been written for spacecraft and not spaceplanes, is a great help). mods used are OPT for most of the body and the front canards and tail plane, B9 procedural wings for the wings, and mk4 spaceplane parts for the engines. 6.4K Downloads Updated Jun 7, 2017 Created Jun 7, 2017. . To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. Also, lift is usually placed in the middle-to-back of the wing, depending on the shape. I also used Intake build aid to balance the intakes. - KSP Matt Lowne 527K subscribers 1.3M views 2 years ago I've wanted. Check out the following guide for some good info: Your wheel base is the problem. (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! The plane is clearly unstable. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). if its too far behind plane cannot lift. Edit: I made a simple easy plane in career mode that is both stable and cheap: A trick i've used before is to put modular girders on the sides of the fuselage and putting the gear on the bottom of the girders. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. Everything looks perfectly symmetrical as far as I can tell. The reverse also happens. Note that a Wheesley or Goliath engine can reverse its thrust to allow rapid deceleration during landing, but these are not recommended for a spaceplane due to being unreasonably heavy and inducing excessive drag when attempting to transition to orbital velocities. A control surface with 100% control surface portion will weigh twice as much as a wing with the same lift would weigh. Such flight involves lift-induced drag, but reduces the total thrust required to traverse a distance at a given speed. . Saves a lot of headache in wheels placement. As lift increases you remove some strain on the gear, however you've just increased the amount of sag. Even if you can takeoff, landing will usually destroy tat aircraft so survival rate on an aircraft for a typical kerbal is nearly zero. Make sure that all of your landing gears are pointing in exactly the same direction. So the answer is: in the SPH, click on your front gear, set the spring to .5 and set the damper to .5 -- then save it and give it another shot at launching. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). Angled landing gear create rotational force for whatever reason. I had this one plane, very fast, It would go to 170 m/s on the runway then drop of the end and soar very nicely. If you can maintain level flight at about 30-40 m/s, you should be able to perform an ocean landing if needed. Firstly, inadequate air intakes for the number and type of engines you're using (causing some engines to shut down before others). This makes them a very effective choice for SSTOs since they do a good job of getting maximum velocity out of air-breathing mode, and then allow you to use oxidizer without needing the added weight and drag of a separate rocket engine. Having said all that, these are the issues you must contend with. If you use an Advanced SAS, and raise your front landing wheel so that it is higher than the rear wheels, by just turning the SAS on and going full throttle, due to the 10 degree angle of the plane, it should eventually take off by itself. Valve Corporation. Here, the. Your link has been automatically embedded. Descending greater than -10 m/s usually makes a mess.